Major General Godwin Abbe (ret.) turns 70 years. He was Minister of Defence and later Interior. Abbe speaks, in this interview, on his life in and outside of the military. He also speaks on issues in the polity.
How do you feel at 70 and what has life taught you?
It is exciting but with mixed feelings. When you attain this age, you suddenly realised that God has been merciful to you. You thank God for the protection you have enjoyed without (paying) money. But, basically, it is more of gratitude to God because I know that it is not by might or right reaching this age.
I have learnt to be grateful to God, to be patient, satisfied with whatever I have and I have now learnt to shun materialism.
Why did you choose to join the military?
At childhood, it was an excitement. I went into the military at the age of 18. You will be amazed that, as a soldier then in Benin, you didn’t have to pay for a bus ride or pay for ticket to enter Ogbe (now Samuel Ogbemudia) Stadium to watch a football match. Watching military films must have played a role too and they were part of the excitement. My father was a policeman; it was a combination of all of these.
How did you survive many military coups?
You want to know if I was involved? I am alive and you are seeing me. The reason was simply loyalty.
What can you describe as your highpoint in the military?
As my career progressed, I had several exciting moments but I looked forward to a brighter new day. I cannot pinpoint one if one would be frank. The first pleasure was surviving the civil (Biafra) war. That was the first joy because everybody, especially those of us who participated, saw (fighter) jets flying very low; so when General Gown declared that the war had ended and that there was “no victor, no vanquished”, it was one of the most exciting moments for us because we had assignments, rumour was on that my battalion was to be given a new mission. I didn’t think the war was necessary; I thought it was nasty and I was too young to understand the totality of it.
As an Edo man and a Nigerian, what was your growing up like?
I was born in Benin. My grand parentage is from Okemole, what you call Lagos Street today. I went to Baptist School and spent most of my time with my grandmother. My first best friend was my grandmother and she taught me so much.
How did you family take your decision to join the military?
My father didn’t like it but my mother and grandmother were very excited. My father hated me joining the military but my grandmother was happy because she thought that, according to Benin mythology, I was her father reincarnate who died fighting within the state-city system, and that I was going to take the job the father had done before.
How was it like being given a gun to shoot your enemy for the first time?
If you find anybody who fought in the civil war, it is on rare occasion you come face-to-face with the enemy. It is only in close battle and it is very rare. So you really don’t see the enemy. So if anybody tells you he sees an enemy at close quarters, it is a blatant lie.
President Buhari is incompetent, rewards failure — Oby Ezekwesili
Any situation where you had close shave with death?
Yes. In June 1969, I was involved in an ambush in Kwale. We were coming from a village called Osisa and in a town called Utagba, the enemy forces ambushed us. We were nine in the vehicle but I survived with my orderly who later died. The enemy forces were better, they anticipated our movement. On another occasion, the Chief of Staff then, General Hassan, was visiting Kwale. I could have been killed but something went wrong with the person who was to shoot me and he said “get up, get up” and l immediately took to my heels and disappeared inside the bush and when his weapon started firing, I was in a different direction. I did not move; so he got scared and ran away. Later in the evening, I came back with my colleagues, including the late John Shagaya, and cleared them (Biafran forces) while they were celebrating and we removed the dead bodies. That is the closest that I can remember. You know we were all boys. I was about 20 years old. There were fears but not the kind I have now because I have children. I won’t like to do those things I did 50 years ago
Do you share the notion that the military incursion into our political system affected our democratic development?
That expression is usually made from the position of ignorance. If you look at the history of other nations that have developed like the United States, Great Britain, Germany, India and Japan, they had military interregnum. So it is out of place to say military incursion into Nigeria’s politics hindered the development of the country. At the time of our socio-political evolution, the military thought they could make a change because those who had responsibility to bring about the change didn’t show the sign that they had the capacity or they were willing to do so. So when the military came in, the people applauded them. Was there any military government that ruled without having civilians as commissioners or ministers?
The truth of the matter is that this is where we are as a nation and that is why the military, in 1999, decided that enough is enough, in fact, the military deserves commendation. It is a mark of true leadership for the military to say “we tried and we have failed” and we accepted democratization in 1999, “let us hand over to democratically elected government”. I was a member of the Provisional Ruling Council (PRC). As soon as (then Head of State) Abacha died, we said we should hand over. But the military did not rule in isolation.
Our predicament predates military rule, we had had obstacles as a nation to our development which is what is still on now. Some nations of the world have seen us as a source of raw material and a market for their finished goods; and they have done everything to keep that status quo. They have the power, information and the technology to do it and they also get into us and set confusion by setting one group against the other. They know our weaknesses: Religion, tribalism, ethnicity and they capitalize on all of that. It is unfortunate that we also encourage them. I really don’t know why we should allow foreigners to come and start pontificating and telling us about democracy and, in the process, they are sowing seed of discord among us?
Are we not giving these people reason to intervene in our democracy because we continue to engage in undemocratic practices?
What should concern us as a nation is to address some of these weaknesses that we have identified. The Emir of Kano was discussing a polygamous system that serves us no good. He was discussing about the North, it is also practiced in the South. Imagine a 60-year-old man marrying a girl of 25 and after ten years of marriage, the man is 70 and the girl is 35 and probably they have five children but because of recklessness the man dies, leaving nothing for the children. Such children may, out of lack of care, end up becoming ‘area boys’, snatching ballot boxes and doing thuggery out of desperation to survive. We need a government that will address some of the problems in the society.
What is your message to Indigenous People of Biafra, IPOB?
You see, every agitation is borne out of dissatisfaction and injustice. As far as I am concerned, based on their observation, they think that the country should be restructured, that there are people who are monopolizing the resources of the country. But they can agitate and not declare war against the state; it is very risky because they themselves may not survive it.
What is the solution to Boko Haram war?
Why is Boko Haram thriving? It is because of injustice, poverty; terrorism generally is premised on resistance to those in authority. It is very difficult to say when this kind of war will end. It is like a medical doctor coming to tell you that a patient diagnosed with cancer will be cured on a particular date; you will know that that doctor is incompetent. Terrorism is usually a long and protracted war.
What is your position on the Amnesty International report on Nigeria’s approach to fighting terrorists?
You hear of our soldiers going to fight and they are not properly armed. We need to arm them so that they can incapacitate anyone trying to cause trouble. I am talking of real incapacitation, bringing death and destruction to those who will stop us from progressing which is what I think President Buhari is doing.
Now, is Amnesty International here to help or destabilise us? What kind of comments are they making? Somebody slapped my son, he bite him, my son is bleeding and you say I should not hit him with a club and break his head and remove the teeth that he used to bite my son! You are discussing fundamental human rights of people who are destroying, killing innocent Nigerians; you are saying that we should not remove their teeth. We will remove their teeth. That is what the Nigerian Army should do and not listen to any talk of human rights. It is when we have succeeded in incapacitating them… and incapacitating terrorists anywhere in the world is usually a long drawn battle; it is not something for politicians to discuss. We have to attain military victory substantially, clear the coast, then move development there (North-East); give the people water, give them light, empower the local government to maintain law and order, nobody will come and ask them whether they are Nigerians or not. There is nothing religious about it.
What about the allegation of funds voted to fight Boko Haram being diverted by military authorities?
I blame the Nigerian state; it means there is something wrong with the system. In our time, we didn’t have that access. Where are you going to get the money from if the system is functioning? You blame the Nigerian state; it is a shame that people steal money to fund the military in billions. What we should address is the system. You say a child has stolen five thousand naira in your house. How have you been keeping the money? What is the system of managing the money? What is wrong is the system; otherwise no individual should have access to that kind of money.
In societies where people are accountable, there are established organs on how funds are spent. We should establish systems of expenditure that will make it difficult for an individual to have access. It is a systemic problem; all those that have been accused of corruption, it means that there was a window through which they, as individuals, have access. There is something wrong with our system, and there is nothing wrong with something being wrong. What is wrong is our inability to now block those loopholes so that in the future, we won’t experience such.
Incessant attacks on our soldiers
Boko Haram fighters themselves, are they not trained? In war, you win sometimes and you lose sometimes, just like in football. But the truth of the matter is that, that also has to do with our socio-political evolution. Who are those that have been in charge in recent times? How have we selected the leaders that have taken over? What has been our succession plan as a nation? In every segment of the society, it must be determined that this person will be the next commander, he must have had certain qualities that are unassailable, he must be able to know that the bullet does not discriminate between religion and tribe. So when you are identifying leaders, and upgrading people to positions, our succession plan matters; it should be reviewed such that the best should occupy strategic positions.
What is the morality in court marshalling soldiers who run away from battle even when ill-equipped?
It is treason for you to run away when you face the enemy. The weapons are there. The probability is that those ones are probably not ready to face the enemy and that is why I am talking about even the quality of training and quality of leadership; all these things come to play but whatever it is, a crime of that level is a crime. It is like a policeman on duty sleeping with his rifle now says an armed robber came to snatch it and that he should be not be arrested and disciplined? Or a journalist wrote a report that is untrue and he should not be sanctioned? There are rules governing every profession. In the face of the enemy, such act is cowardice and cowardice is death sentence. Sleeping on duty takes a maximum punishment of 20 years imprisonment, it is a serious matter; all of us are sleeping and two of you are posted there to watch and make sure that we sleep and then the two of you decide to sleep. Every other person is now in the hands of those two persons told to guard us, if they decide to go to slumber, it means all of us will be killed; if you find them sleeping, try them and sentence them to maximum punishment.
Countdown to 2019 elections, are you worried about the state of affairs?
No, I am worried. I expect that we get over it. We may have challenges but we will get over them. What we are doing now is not new. Is this the first election we are going to conduct in this country? It is just the politicians who are beating drums of war, they are afraid for their investments, they are afraid of their future, they are worried that some of them might drop dead when they lose; so they tell all sorts of stories. But for those of us who are watching, there is nothing to be afraid of. If the sky is falling, it will fall on all of us.
So what we expect to happen is that the needful should be done and we are expecting that the police protect all Nigerians who want to vote and that the ballot boxes should not be snatched. That is what the policemen are paid for and we are saying that no citizen should be beaten and the police will turn their face. If everybody tries to do his or her own bit as far as the election is concerned, by the grace of God, there will be a result. If you say some people will rig, is this the first time they will be rigging election? Is it only in Nigeria that they rig election? So why should I be afraid? I have hope, in-fact I am excited to see the February elections come and go. I want to see how Nigerians will exercise their right and I want to see where the pendulum will swing, and whether democratisation will take place or we need to do more work to sustain this process that we are about taking as a nation.
Some former military officers seem divided over support for Buhari
It is uncharitable at this point in time for me to take sides. I am going to exercise my right to vote and that is personal to me and I will rather wish at my level that I am allowed and all the citizens to decide who they want to rule them. If they want President Buhari to continue, good for them, he will continue and if they want another person, so be it and President Buhari should be prepared to step down. Nothing is forever but I will not at this point take sides. If I take sides at the national level, I may not be helping the situation. I may be inflaming an already combustive situation. Buhari was sick and some people said he should resign, that was uncharitable. Somebody who was sick, does he have a mind of his own? Now he is well, those calls were uncharitable
Vanguard
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